There are 8 ways to choose the president. That leaves 7 choices for vice-president. So there are 8*7 ways to choose the president and the vice-president. That leaves 6 choices for secretary. So there are 8*7*6 ways to choose the president, vice-president, and secretary, That leaves 5 choices for treasurer. So there are 8*7*6*5 ways to choose the president, vice-president, secretary, and treasurer. That's 8P4 = 8*7*6*5 = 1680 ways. Edwin